The Indian/Chinese IQ puzzle

btw, indian skin color is not rainbow, it’s 90% dark, with only 10% can be claimed as more or less different variety. China is 90% light yellow, with 10% different skin colors distributed among rest of the ethnic minorities.

I blame Indian elite for holding India back as well. They deprived the lower classes education and health. If it were not for that India would today have far more people who would be educated because the masses still live in the villages. There is tremendous potential the country isn’t exploiting. However, things are now changing with discrimination evidently becoming less. Some of these village kids will be part of the increasing productive society of tomorrow.

Regarding China again, the Beijing Olympics, though grand, was criticized for lacking heart. It was as if it were an exercise of military precision by the Communist regime rather than peoples games. Just compare with the London Olympics. World’s apart.

China putting kids through what seems like torture just to win gold medals at the Olympics is not humane; I’d rather be medal-less.

India is a vibrant, open society, though lot of discrimination toward the lower classes still exists, but improving; China is an authoritarian society lacking any moral fiber and will do anything (violate human rights) to be seen as a world power.

Atleast I am happy now the real India vs China debate going on .........

@low IQ

Your figure is wrong, don’t jump into conclusions with Wikipedia, there are more to it.

China men-169.4 cm (5’ 6.7”) women-158.6 cm (5’ 2.5”)
India       men-165.3 cm (5’ 5”)      women-165.3 cm (5’ 5”)

Take the average, Indians are taller, more over your Chinese people has a disproportional arms and legs ( shorter ) compared to other races ,THAT IS WHY I SAID SHORT just like monkeys. On top of it flat nose and small sly eyes , the most ugliest people look wise on planet earth. Sorry to say this but you warranted for it. Indians are darker in skin but features are far far better than you guys. I would not have said this but you forced me so. dark skin has more advantage man, can width stand ultra violet radiation, less skin cancer. That is why evolution provided more melanin to the tropical population as a safe guard. Tell me one advantage of your yellow skin ? Scientifically .....

Even third generation US Chinese are still struggling to be in 3rd place in US and in other developed countries. You man in Far East Asia the majority is mongoloids so why barking lot on that ? Then regarding the AVERAGE IQ there is disparity I agree, that is solely because of the literacy rate in India is only 53% as against your China 93%, once that is matched Indian IQ will be around 112, that is what the Fobes indicates in US. US Indians -112, US-Jews 110, US Chinese -106. Here the environment is same for all unlike country wise.

Winning nobel without colonial british or american environment is itself a stupid argument as Nobel prize itself was initiated from western. more over Modern China was developed by the west, man , You guys allowed the west to build up the infrastructure as they need cheap labour factory workers. That helped in building up your country and economy. That is why I said China can only be a blue collar working class labours for the western world. Market globalization is a kind of cultural colonization of the west, especially American.

China can get tons of Olympic medals I agree , but who is the Hero obviously USAIN BOLT , why so much hype on him becz the entire world knows Track and Field is the actual sports all other can be pepped up. I will accept Chinese athletes the day they can win a 100 m dash in Olympics or say in any International events. Many might not have noticed it is a blacks game man, The day Africa becomes rich they are going to sweep it all away.

Dont bark on innovation , tell me one real innovation from Chinese which can match with Indian decimal system? the entire world stands on it , this is the only language for maths and science.  You guys do not have any gratitude what so ever, Entire world should bow to India for this innovation then only to west for their innovation as w/o a grandfather there cant be a grandson !!!!!!!!

IF YOU HATE INDIANS STOP USING OUR DECIMAL AND BINARY SYSTEM HAHAHAHHAHA ....... THEN COME AND TALK TO US, ooooooooo, then you cant use computers lol ,SO SAD.

@ low IQ

There is a mistake in the Average height of the Indian women which I mentioned, South Indians and East Indians are shorter compared to North Indians that is why the average has come down. But I stand by rest of my quote.

@art, lol, truth hurts, so much so that you starting calling out names. first provoke with “short people”, after getting debunked and found out south asians are actually the shortest, now “ugliest people”? hahaha. right, here’s a banana for you and go back to your jungle, my short little friend, keep swinging tree to tree and don’t chimp out again, hahaha. regional height difference? so what? northern chinese are much taller than southern chinese, what’s your point?

“greatest innovation”, here we go again, “greatest”, “Eisenstein of”, “1 in 3”,“1 in 5”, “entire world SHOULD bow to us”, “foundation of ...”, oh man, south asians are so recognition deprived… your guys want it so BAD, so desperate, you have to resort to lies and use BIG words, hahaha. good thing no one else believe in those lies, a bunch of other people invented decimal independently, don’t believe me, look it up, no one owns crap to you south asians, another south asian lie debunked… one after one after one after one, sooooo pathetic, hahaha.

south asian can’t build up their countries even with western “friends” help, all the tech transfers, western money, resort to chinese company to supply electricity generator (indians can’t make reliable/cheap generators even with wage a fraction of chinese). with all the westerner help, south asian still can’t make it,  a majority of current infrastructure are still from the colonial british, wow! well again, I’m not surprised. american/european and chinese hate each other, baring all the tech transfers to china, still, china is leaps and bounds ahead of india in technology. like i said, south asian can’t fit to be of any kind of productive worker, not innovative, no wok ethic, low iq, even with south asian wages a mere fraction of chinese wages, they still can’t compete on anything, no wonder south asians only fit to sit in a primitive jungle and get starved, begging for help like the sub-saharan countries.

first generation Indian IQ = 112? show me published scientific studies, the same depth like the one done by other more prominent iq studies. so some white guy took a guess that first generation immigrant is 112, all the sudden indians are going ballistic, lol. every single straw, your guys are so desperate you have to hang onto every single straw, lol. “some white guy guessed us first gen immigrant at 112, yea, so proud.” hahaha, whatever dude… like i said before, with regression to the mean, with whatever iq you have in the 1st gen, 2nd generation indian iq will be guaranteed revert back to 80~90 average, same argument i made before, nothing new.

btw, i don’t hate south asians, only the ones that provoke us, rest of you I’m just indifferent. number speaks, you can’t match with east asian on innovation, productivity, tons of other things… the intellectual prowess east asian have over you is just overwhelming, you don’t stand a chance. nobel is a western thing? lol. if the numbers were the other way around, i can see you south asian jumping up and down bragging about the nobels… just look at how seriously you take some white guys random guess on indian iq, lol. oh boy, let’s see how many more straws you can find.

@A Malik, points taken, I agree with most of what you said.

@nagasaki
Everyone cites Einstein’s original papers and they are counted. The ones who don’t cite his papers are writing in books or journals. They are not even scientists. The scientists who write about relativity theory in a scientific publication actually cite Einstein’s original paper. And one more thing about Einstein, some of his papers really have no citation at all. What made him so important wasn’t how difficult his theory was but how important it was. He changed the concept. And don’t worry; no one in the West heard anything about the so-called great (!) Indian scientists. Possibly the best known may be Ramanujan and the whites don’t know even how it is spelled and what he discovered.

As to GDP per capita you possibly didn’t realize the conversation with an Indian. He doesn’t know Indian GDP per capita but claims that he knows the Indian contributions. And total Indian GDP surely doesn’t mean anything but GDP per capita does. You can’t expect Swiss GDP to pass Indian GDP. Swiss is just 7 millions whereas India is over 1.2 billion. But the Indians who are bragging about the GDP of India in this forum are also a good proof how stupid Indians are. There is nothing to be proud of about the total GDP. You surely can’t expect Luxembourg to pass Nigeria. So what???

@low iq

So when did Chinese guys grew tall man ? using some kind of steroids ???? Anyway I have taken that back, Happy now ? but where is your response to my subsequent posts ? You are only saying ahhh, hhoo, jungle, this and that , colonial British ,Nobel price etc, etc, you didn’t even answer to any one of my subsequent post. 112 IQ ? just google it ,there are many links pertaining to Forbes study, I know your Chinese computers may not work properly. In a debate you need to stick to contest and should have the guts to accept the facts instead of side tracking when you cant answer it, STICK TO CONTEST man.

There are some idiots here barking on GDP per capita , Surely he doesn’t know the relation of the population factor which is always inversely proportionate. India need to control its population to raise this figure. There are a lot of population in India who are mere dependants w/o any contribution what so ever from their side and that is the another hurdle for India.

@low iq

What?

People care about where Indians excel, and people care about those who/what/why have given them compliments.
People care about Chess
People care about prize money in awards.
Even the richest Indian man is richer than the richest Chinese. (Same for top 10 richest from the two nations)
Indians do better than Chinese in almost everything that matters.
The Olympics is the only important area where the Chinese are far superior to Indians. But Olympics is more about quantity than quality. It’s more about money and system than raw talent.

What I said is what matters .
What I said is quality - not quantity, which is where the Chinese excel.
If some Chinese in a blog thinks that these aren’t important, then you think we should care?

There is no American environment in India. A few brits may have lived in India in the early part of 20th century, but most of the environment is built by Indians. Only some ignorant fools think that it’s all due to brits.
A lot of achievements have come from ISI, the various IITs, or other institutes like TIFR and all are 100% built and developed by Indians. There is no Brit or American here. Almost all the teachers and staffs in universities like Calcutta University were Indians even before independence.

Only one Chinese nobel laurate did his work at home and he is the peace nobel winner rejected by his own country. The rest had to move to 1st world to do anything worth.

You Chinese guys are just giving excuses- it’s all sour grapes - we have more versatile rainbow colured skin, greater achievement per cm of height. Of course, you guys are insecure about your height anyway, why else even bring this? Indians rule!

And don’t hide behind EA cover. This is China vs India, not EA vs SA.
One stupid Rushton praised your Chinese IQ, and suddenly you made the whole of India your punching bag? Grow up!

@ strategy

No, a lot of Einstein’s best papers have almost no citation today at all, others often come as footnote citings or historical citings as opposed to any real citing. The reason is that a lot of these works have become common knowledge with time. Same goes for most nobel winners. Another thing about citing is that nowadays some of the most cited papers tend to have more practical uses in engineeringing as opposed to being of esoteric and intellectual nature.
It is mostly mid-tier papers of practical nature that are cited most.

What’s even more surprising is that when I tried to search for citation figures, I couldn’t get many EA names at all. I was searching for not normal citation figures, but more scientific ones like e-index. The only EA name I found were Y.Nambu and M.Kobayashi and NONE of them are in the list that you pulled.
This is equal to number of SA names I found who were A.Ashtekar and A.Salam.
There were NO CHINESE in that list. Both were Japanese.
Names mentioned earlier like Witten or Hawking were towards the top. At the very top was an ARGENTINE named J.Maldacena - a latin guy.

De Broglie considered einstein’s most important papers brownian motion, Photo-electric effect, relativity and Bose-einstein Statistics. The last is actually Bose’s work, who was an Indian.
Forget Bose or Ramanujan, whose names can be found in lots of text-books, have you ever heard of Chandra observatory in NASA, named after S.Chandrasekhar?
Like I am going to take from some random Chinese like you about who cares about whom.

Anyway, I don’t feel like continuing these meaningless arguments. Yes, the Chinese are doing well these days economically and it reflects in sports and other fields, but the whole idea of using this to attack indians is evil.

I definitely don’t agree with A.Malik.
I felt that the Chinese Opening and Closing ceremony in both Beijing and Ghuanjou were both better than this olympics. That’s one area where they definitely beat the Brits. I would say even the op and closing of Common Wealth games in India was on par with or better than what the Brits did.

As for the olympics itself, I am fairly satisfied with India’s performance.
Of the 30 olympics so far, the first 28 brought India 18 medals. The last two has already produced 9 . 6 this time, 3 last time
That’s a 50% increment in just 2 olympics!Does this question the belief that India is not a good sporting nation because of genes? Definitely!
Spend money, build a system and you can become a good sporting nation. India also did well in the Commonwealth Games, finishing second. Although the competition is much less in CG, but it gives a glimpse of the potential that can be tapped.

At this rate India will be definitely looking at double digit figure of medals within the next two olympics.
The only down side was the fact that we couldn’t win a gold like last time, but we did add 2 silvers. North Korea finished in top 20, despite the same number of medals as us indians.

@ brain

Just give the link you are referring, then we can discuss better, okay? Don’t let me waste my time by looking for citations. The measure of creativity is always problematic including even the Einstein index but I haven’t analyzed it yet. No measure is perfect. In the number of citations the main 2 problems are language (English has a great advantage) and artificial citing of some scientists.  Especially the Jewish scientists cite each other to promote themselves. Whatever method you choose you will always have problems in identifying the most creative scientists. But I am definitely comparing the East Asians (not just the Chinese) with only the smart races of India (not all the Indians) in vocabulary skills, math (without geometry) and artistic talents and interests. Genetic research says that there is not much difference between the Chinese and the other EA. Though there is no research about the Brahmins (fewer than 5 %) it would be interesting to compare them with the EA.

@ Indian arts

You say the same stupid things Astro said before (that India is one third of China in size, Indians created the decimal system). I don’t care if you are astro or not. Do you think that African countries will perform anything economically if they control their population? Your ideas are so stupid that you represent just a waste of time in this forum.

@ strategy

I have to go through the earlier quotes to see others comments.

Indian invention of decimal system is a known fact, that is what changed the entire world. You have a dispute on that ? Even Sanskrit is the root of the entire Indo-European languages including English. I know you guys cant digest it, we know that.

Any way but your ideas on the per capital income seems to be wrong as you are going purely on academic. You cannot compare the cost of living of every country in equal norms. for example in India a person can live a comfortable life with $6000/- a year, may be true for china too,  where some one from US need at least $40000/- a year to have the same standard of living. Africa is a different scenario, their GDP itself is low so what difference it is going to make, you are not making sense here.  What India today is due to the small % of business class, the Vaishyas the entrepreneur’s not due to Brahmins as you think and looking for a correlation here is fruitless. The social equation has changed man, India is lot more complicated, being an outsider you cant envisage the real facts. You are academic but not Analytical and that is your stupidity and I too feel that you are a wastage of time for others. Discussions should be mutually beneficial not for flexing the muscles.

#You have to be an Indian to know the “Indian Strategy” being a Chinese you cant be a good Indian Strategist. May be you can be a Good Chinese Strategist…

@strategy

See, I am not interested in saying anything more unless you are willing to shed the EA cover.

Genetically human beings are closer than the vast majority of mammals, and the non-africans are even much closer genetically. So why not put all humans or non-africans together?
Whether or not the chinese and japanese are gentically close, they are not the same and that’s all that matters.
In fact, many Japanese are genetically much closer to tibetans, than the actual Chinese. For example, Michio kaku’s genetic test revealed that he has very strong tibetan ancestry.
Tibet shares a long border and relationship with India, and is forcefully captured by China, remember?

The main article said mainly about discussing environmental factors and here we are mainly discussing genes and races. I am not interested at all in these stupid talks unless you guys have at least the courage to present yourself as Chinese.

I have no interest in discussing brahmins either.
It has already been pointed out that brahmins are neither the only successful group in India , nor a very rich group on average. Also, some of the claims here are false about southern brahmins. You can’t identify most southern brahmins by their surname. There is NO SURNAME in vast majority of Tamil speaking families. The son just uses his father’s name and adds a new name after that name.

@Indian Olympics

Agree about the olympics and opening ceremony.
India could have won even more with some luck. Archery, boxing(male part), tennis and even shooting could have produced some more medals with some luck. If the neccessary attention is given to various olympic sports we may be able to get to double digit medals just next time in 2016.

I was talking about the Olympics as a whole. I have never seen such enthusiasm comparable to London Olympics in terms of fan participation in the country and general feel good factor. I am here in the UK so I know what’s been happening.

I agree with you about the closing ceremony not being on par with previous ceremonies and was actually rather poor. Regarding the opening ceremony - it wasn’t as bad as some might think. Lot of non-British people did not understand the cultural references that were being displayed such as the NHS, Industrial Revolution and so on. Also, I thought Rowan Atkinson’s turn as Mr. Bean was humorous in the orchestra playing the theme from Chariots of Fire. The hint of Queen dropping down into the stadium was also quite funny. It was different.

During these games, even the lowly events that people wouldn’t normally care about (like showjumping) were played in front of full houses. Only on the first and second day a few of the events weren’t full because the Olympic VIP people did not take up their allocated seats, but trust me, they could have filled those venues several times over because the demand was astronomical. In China, many of the events were played in front of half full venues, and even the athletics was only half full during the qualifying rounds and morning sessions. TV viewing figures were huge in the UK for many events. The Olympics took over the mindset of the British people and wall-to-wall TV coverage.

@ Brain

You are right - The proportion of human genetic variation due to differences between populations is modest, and individuals from different populations can be genetically more similar than individuals from the same population.—This is an accepted scientific fact. The variance is due to in allele frequencies which is even more with in the races as allele’s can only happen with in populations.

Africans are the only population with a few distinct characteristics, physically , I am not talking about appearance, that is why they are always winners in track and field. testosterone levels are also high for them. Apart from other population variances are negligible and the talents are evenly distributed in different populations including IQ, the pep up factors are education, environmrnt and economy. Chinese has a comparable IQ like Japanese from early 1900 on wards but why did china was poor and lagged back and Japan made it. Now only Chinese came up right, that too merely due to globalization. If it was an IQ factor then they should have done it earlier like Japan. they are not innovative they cant think out of the box.

These stupid people are trying to correlate Brahmins to East Asians, thinking that they are the most successful population in India. Yes they were once w/o a fair game, others were denied of education in those days ,then there was an intellectual war between Brahmins and Kshatryas , that is when the golden era of Buddhism started. Eventually Brahamins won with Advaitha over Sunyavada and uprooted Buddisam from India, though it was not a fair game.  Brahmins reinstated their supremacy. Later with the advent of Bristish India equation again changed, now the Vaishyas the business class got the upper hand due to Industrialization. Brahmins, and Shathiyas are no more a players now unless they start getting into business, which can happen but not in the near future. Now money talks,  Only a few unbiased Indians can understand and Analyze these facts, see in this forum even Indian’s argue with other Indians why, again due to this stupid caste and regionalism, Everybody wants to show they are great, India has a long way to go man. There are volumes to talk , which is not possible here.

A person has to be totally unbiased to see the truth, my lineage is from Brahmins, Am I arguing for them here ? I am not following anything from my lineage except vegetarianism.

These fellows just go through Wikipedia and come into some kind of stupid conclusions which are far from reality….........

@Indian Arts

Your comparison of GDP per capita is for NOMINAL, not PPP (PURCHASING POWER PARITY). You can’t compare the GDP per capita of the different countries if they are in NOMINAL values but you actually can compare if they are in PPP’s. the academics has solved this problem long time ago, that is why the PPP’s are used because the prices of the same goods and services in the different countries are adjusted as much as possible. The poor countries have higher PPP than nominal and the rich countries have the opposite. Instead of writing on economic terms you should first do a research about them. the Indian nominal GDP per capita is about $ 1000 but it is $ 3700 in PPP terms. After adjusting the prices of the goods and services you can’t still go on saying ‘yes, the GDP per capita in India is $ 3700 but it is the equivalent of $ 10000 of America’. No, it is the same with $ 3700 of America. It is internationally adjusted. But being unaware of PPP proves that you should take some courses in economics before writing here because you are a waste of time and wasted my time.

@ Strategy

You need not accept me, but this is what your favorite Wikipedia says :-

The PPP exchange-rate calculation is controversial because of the difficulties of finding comparable baskets of goods to compare purchasing power across countries.

Estimation of purchasing power parity is complicated by the fact that countries do not simply differ in a uniform price level; rather, the difference in food prices may be greater than the difference in housing prices, while also less than the difference in entertainment prices. People in different countries typically consume different baskets of goods. It is necessary to compare the cost of baskets of goods and services using a price index. This is a difficult task because purchasing patterns and even the goods available to purchase differ across countries. Thus, it is necessary to make adjustments for differences in the quality of goods and services. Furthermore, the basket of goods representative of one economy will vary from that of another; Americans eat more bread, Chinese more rice. Hence a PPP calculated using the US consumption as a base will differ from that calculated using China as a base. Additional statistical difficulties arise with multilateral comparisons when (as is usually the case) more than two countries are to be compared. Various ways of averaging bilateral PPPs can provide a more stabile multilateral comparison, but at the cost of distorting bilateral ones. These are all general issues of indexing; as with other price indices there is no way to reduce complexity to a single number that is equally satisfying for all purposes. Nevertheless, PPPs are typically robust in the face of the many problems that arise in using market exchange rates to make comparisons.
For example, in 2005 the price of a gallon of gasoline in Saudi Arabia was $0.91 US, and in Norway the price was $6.27 US.[9] The significant differences in price wouldn’t contribute to accuracy in a PPP analysis, despite all of the variables that contribute to the significant differences in price. More comparisons have to be made and used as variables in the overall formulation of the PPP.
When PPP comparisons are to be made over some interval of time, proper account needs to be made of inflationary effects.

You need not be a great Economist to analyze simple stuffs, If economists were great then why we have recessions after recessions ?

In 65 years, we have become the third largest economy, despite having a non-productive population of 60%, and 52% involved in agriculture which contributes only 18% to the national economy.

Your academics always do not help, that is what I said, anyway have a good day man ..........

@ Indian arts

You don’t read carefully what I wrote. I said ‘the prices of the same goods and services in the different countries are adjusted as much as possible. You repeat the same sentence with various variations. The weight, number and variety of the goods and services are also the same problem while calculating the inflation rates. They change not only from country to another but also from time to time. If Brazil and Mexico have 5 % of inflation surely they don’t consume exactly the same products but it is approximately equal. Finally Wikipedia is not my consultant for anything.